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	<title>Comments on: Logipundit&#8217;s take on the election.</title>
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	<link>http://www.logipundit.com/2008/11/logipundits-take-on-the-election.html</link>
	<description>A Bastion of Reason</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: wdporter</title>
		<link>http://www.logipundit.com/2008/11/logipundits-take-on-the-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-5466</link>
		<dc:creator>wdporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 15:52:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logipundit.com/?p=2725#comment-5466</guid>
		<description>Let me put it another way, then:

Obama may have won on issues in the sense that people knew what he espoused and they voted for him, however it wasn't with the informed belief that those stances would actually solve problems.

Almost EVERY conversation I've had with an Obama supporter on Obama's belief system goes like this:

me: but he believes in x, y, and z.

OS: what's wrong with that?

me: um...a, b, c, and especially d.  We've tried x and y before, and don't you think that z is a little over the top?

OS: well, maybe, but it's time for a change, Bush has ruined this country!

me: OK, maybe, let's say you're right.  If there is evidence that x and y, and especially z, would makes things EVEN worse, and not only that it's been tried before with miserable results, should you continue to support the guy?

OS: you don't know what he'll do!  He might be just fine!  Give him a chance!

me: OK, I should "give him a chance" by hoping that he really doesn't do what he says he is going to do? So is that what you're doing?  Hoping he doesn't do things that will make things worse?  Or hoping the things he does don't actually make things worse, even though there is ample evidence that they indeed will?  So should we hope for incompetence? Ineffectiveness? Dishonesty?  I thought one of the reasons to vote for him was his effectiveness, competence and honesty.

OS: You're so cynical!!

me: Yep, but am I wrong?

OS: It doesn't matter!  Just pause for a second and let a little humanity and hope sink in. You need to have faith!!

me: In what? God? Or My President? Who or what should I have faith in?

OS: I don't want to talk to you anymore...you're too negative.

me: OK.

I wouldn't describe that as voting on issues.  I would describe it as "voting the bums out" despite the issues.  What's funny is that NONE of the positions that Obama supports are new, transformative or different than the same playbook that's been used for the last 40 or 60 years.   So "change we can believe in" should really say "change that's been tried before, doesn't work, but we really want to try it again."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me put it another way, then:</p>
<p>Obama may have won on issues in the sense that people knew what he espoused and they voted for him, however it wasn&#8217;t with the informed belief that those stances would actually solve problems.</p>
<p>Almost EVERY conversation I&#8217;ve had with an Obama supporter on Obama&#8217;s belief system goes like this:</p>
<p>me: but he believes in x, y, and z.</p>
<p>OS: what&#8217;s wrong with that?</p>
<p>me: um&#8230;a, b, c, and especially d.  We&#8217;ve tried x and y before, and don&#8217;t you think that z is a little over the top?</p>
<p>OS: well, maybe, but it&#8217;s time for a change, Bush has ruined this country!</p>
<p>me: OK, maybe, let&#8217;s say you&#8217;re right.  If there is evidence that x and y, and especially z, would makes things EVEN worse, and not only that it&#8217;s been tried before with miserable results, should you continue to support the guy?</p>
<p>OS: you don&#8217;t know what he&#8217;ll do!  He might be just fine!  Give him a chance!</p>
<p>me: OK, I should &#8220;give him a chance&#8221; by hoping that he really doesn&#8217;t do what he says he is going to do? So is that what you&#8217;re doing?  Hoping he doesn&#8217;t do things that will make things worse?  Or hoping the things he does don&#8217;t actually make things worse, even though there is ample evidence that they indeed will?  So should we hope for incompetence? Ineffectiveness? Dishonesty?  I thought one of the reasons to vote for him was his effectiveness, competence and honesty.</p>
<p>OS: You&#8217;re so cynical!!</p>
<p>me: Yep, but am I wrong?</p>
<p>OS: It doesn&#8217;t matter!  Just pause for a second and let a little humanity and hope sink in. You need to have faith!!</p>
<p>me: In what? God? Or My President? Who or what should I have faith in?</p>
<p>OS: I don&#8217;t want to talk to you anymore&#8230;you&#8217;re too negative.</p>
<p>me: OK.</p>
<p>I wouldn&#8217;t describe that as voting on issues.  I would describe it as &#8220;voting the bums out&#8221; despite the issues.  What&#8217;s funny is that NONE of the positions that Obama supports are new, transformative or different than the same playbook that&#8217;s been used for the last 40 or 60 years.   So &#8220;change we can believe in&#8221; should really say &#8220;change that&#8217;s been tried before, doesn&#8217;t work, but we really want to try it again.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rip</title>
		<link>http://www.logipundit.com/2008/11/logipundits-take-on-the-election.html/comment-page-1#comment-5463</link>
		<dc:creator>Rip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 05:52:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.logipundit.com/?p=2725#comment-5463</guid>
		<description>Let's not go too far in regards to saying Obama didn't win on the issues.  

Many policies of Obama's were specific and well-received by a majority of voters, such as:

1) Raising the highest income tax rates back to Clinton levels.
2) Raising the capital gains tax
3) Accelerating the Iraq pull-out
4) Investing heavily in alternate energy sources and early education

That said, I obviously disagree with the vast majority of his policies.

The international response has more to do with Bush (and, by extension, McCain) being rebuked by voters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s not go too far in regards to saying Obama didn&#8217;t win on the issues.  </p>
<p>Many policies of Obama&#8217;s were specific and well-received by a majority of voters, such as:</p>
<p>1) Raising the highest income tax rates back to Clinton levels.<br />
2) Raising the capital gains tax<br />
3) Accelerating the Iraq pull-out<br />
4) Investing heavily in alternate energy sources and early education</p>
<p>That said, I obviously disagree with the vast majority of his policies.</p>
<p>The international response has more to do with Bush (and, by extension, McCain) being rebuked by voters.</p>
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